Find Balance as a Mom with a Demanding Career with Dr. Bonnie Koo

You're listening to the empowering working moms podcast episode number 69. Today I am so excited to have a special guest coming to us on this podcast, Dr. Bonnie Koo. She is a master certified life coach, physician, and founder of Wealthy Mom, MD.

She's a money coach for women physicians, and a proud graduate of Barnard College and Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons. She is the host of the WealthyMomMD podcast and author of Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash. She currently resides in northern jersey with her family. So let's get to it and dive in.

All right, I am so excited today because I have a very, very special guest. Her name is Dr. Bonnie Koo. She was actually a coach of mine, and I'm thrilled to have her here. She's been doing amazing things and really thinking outside the box, which is what I want to dive into today. So welcome, Bonnie. Hey, there. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you on. So I wanted to ask you, I know you're a dermatologist by trade, what really led you to becoming a coach?

Yeah. So I'm just laughing because like, it was not what I was expecting. I think that's the story for a lot of us. It's not like we were like, let's go to medical school or whatever career and then let's just change your mind a few years into it, right? Like, I don't think any of us had that goal. And so, I mean, the short story is that I was learning about money just for myself, because I realized I had no idea what I was doing. And then I was in a Facebook group of other physicians and it was for money, specifically. Just a community group where people were helping each other out.

And then I noticed that I was answering all the questions, and then people started tagging me, this was just fun for me. And then someone was like, why don't you start a blog? And so I did. And then it just went on from there. And then I just started getting asked to speak. And then I started working with a coach because to me, this was just a hobby. And then eventually, I got to the point where I had to either let it go, because I just had my son who's now six or make it a business, although there's obviously a lot of options in between, but those were the two options in my head.

And then at some point, I just decided, it wasn't like there was a specific reason if I'm perfectly honest, I was like, why not? The worst that can happen is that it fails and I'm still a doctor. Yeah, being a physician is not a bad fallback career, I suppose. I'm sure people are thinking that. Okay. So the personal development is the hobby, right? Which leads you to something that you're really enjoying, and then you make a decision to monetize it.

So what I think is really remarkable here, and why I really wanted to have you on the podcast is what gave you the courage to step out of that box, because there is pretty much, with or without people acknowledging it, there is kind of a box that physicians are put into or whatever box you might be in, in your culture, and just having the guts to step outside of that not really knowing what comes next.

Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, I started meeting other people doing similar things. And so there's a conference called fincon, it's like in the fall of every year, it's probably like, happening this week or last week. And it's where all the people in the finance media world come together. And so I started to just meet other people who are doing this, including other doctors, there were a few other doctors. So I think just having that community, it was small, but just other people doing it. So like, I wasn't the only like weird and crazy person doing this. I think that was helpful.

And then honestly, working with a coach, like she helped me navigate the decision. And then once I decided to do a business, she helped me figure out what I could or couldn't do. And she also pointed out some things that maybe I wasn't thinking of, she's like, you have basically been building an audience for the past two years, not like on purpose, but just because I've been just helping people. And so she was like, you're in the perfect position to monetize it, if you want. And then I was like, okay. So it's interesting.

And then I took all these courses on how to learn how to run a business, because I didn't have any business skills. And so why would I Google it myself? I feel like a lot of people do this. I'm like, why would I Google it like people already know how to do this. I'm just gonna learn from them. I don't know if I'd describe it as courage. I think again, it's like being surrounded by these people. So it was almost like normalized that you can do this.

But what's really fascinating in life in general, is that a lot of us think that, especially physicians, you go to college, you go to med school, you pick a speciality, you go into residency, maybe fellowship, and then you work and then it's going to be a steady income, and all the steps are there.

So it feels so certain, even though you do have to pass the boards and do a lot of steps along the way. So it isn't actually certain but this false sense of certainty that we have in our careers, as opposed to being an entrepreneur, which just by nature is much more shaky, and it's more obvious that step A is the opposite of certainty. Exactly right.

So it's a lot of trial and error or failing forward or any of those concepts. So that is why I bring up the courage piece. Where of course, stepping into the unknown pretty much we're doing that all the time. We have no control over what the future holds.

Right, but at the same time doing something that's so different from what you're used to, or what you've been taught, or what you thought your life was going to be, and really just going for it, I think is really inspiring for people like, and that's why I say courage because for many people staying in the status quo, no matter how boring or dissatisfying or even malignant and might be, they'll stay there because they're terrified of the change. So yeah, can you relate to any of that, or can you elaborate on?

Yeah, well, here's a few things that I didn't mention. So two things is I had a different career before medical school, I was a non traditional student, I worked at Morgan Stanley, not in finance, but I worked in IT. And so I didn't have this like identity of just being a student. So I think that's part of it. The second thing is right after college, I did some pretty intense personal development work. And so I say that because I think I was already sort of more open minded that things can change, and that people do this, if that makes sense. Like, I'd forgotten about it. And I feel like I regressed during medical training.

But I think that's also why when I started working with my first coach, it was just really clear to me like, oh, yeah, remember this work, and just how fun it is to always be growing. Because I think what happens is, whatever career you choose, you become stagnant at some point, right? Because like in med school, it's like, we're learning all these new things, and you have residency, you're learning all these new things. And the first year or two of being attending is also exciting, right? And I feel like a lot of doctors get bored after like, three to five years, sometimes earlier.

Well, there's nowhere to go. The beauty of medicine is it is a steady job. People will always need doctors. But at the same time, there's not that much upward growth, like you're a doctor and you're doing the same thing more or less, unless let's say you're managing your practice, and maybe you work less, or maybe you become an entrepreneur on the side, but just straight being a doctor, you're going to do the same thing in your 10th year that you're doing in your first or second year. And that, I agree, like you kind of just hit like a plateau there and you aren't really growing in your career, per se.

Yeah. And I think that's when a lot of people get. They talk about the seven year itch and marriage, but I feel like it's more like a three to five year itch in medicine. I think people look around and are like, oh, is this it? Because I think we all thought like once we became attendings that we would live happily ever after, basically. And then we learned that's not a thing, and then we're really disappointed.

Correct. And then the beauty is you have the steady income. And sometimes you can, well that's the work that you do, which feel free to talk about that. Like so, you have the money. And then what do you do with it? You have the luxury of maybe making your money work for you?

Yeah, I mean, so I coach people on money. But what I realized after doing this for some time is it's not just about the money because you can have all the money in the world. But if you're an unhappy person, it doesn't matter. Right, you can take nicer vacations and eat at Michelin star restaurants, I guess, right?

So I really try to teach my clients money is a tool to help you do things, it is very useful, obviously. But also money is not going to make you happy. And because we all know that technically, but we really think we'll be happier with money, like certain things are possible. And certain things are more fun.

Like I love traveling first class, like I definitely am happier while flying first class, right? Like, there's no doubt about that. But those experiences alone aren't going to make my life rich and fulfilled. So I really try to help my clients do a little bit of both. And that's mainly from like the coaching because once you get coached on one area of your life, it kind of filters into other areas of your life.

I was laughing about the first class business class flying, laughing silently, but what that brought up for me was that those kinds of experiences are transient. Right? So money might buy you that but that comes and it goes but a lack of money, I think also can create a lot of stress that will make you unhappy.

Yeah. Well, so I don't know exactly who your listeners are. Are they mostly physicians or high income women?

It's pretty much career driven, high achieving, working moms.

I mean, pretty much everyone listening is not going to struggle with basic needs that money provides, right. And so I'm sure you've heard of a study that over a certain amount of money adjusted for where you live doesn't increase happiness, right? Obviously, if you don't have money to buy food, being able to buy food is definitely going to increase. It's not even happiness. It's like, just be not worrying about those primal things you need to live right. But yeah, after a certain amount of money, like it doesn't do as much as we think except for flying first class.

And the fancy meals, which by the way, I feel like the fancy meals that are curated and they look beautiful on the plate. I always leave those places hungry, wanting a piece of pizza. Like if you've ever been to 11 Madison Park, or you know they do these, well, that's a bajillion courses. But if you go do like a lesser version of that, like three courses, of like bite sized food, and then I'm leaving craving more, having spent how much money.

It's funny. I just went to France a few months ago, Paris specifically and I don't think I enjoy fancy food as much as I used to. To me it was like it's about the food. It's also the experience and I'm not sure if I enjoyed it. Maybe I'm just getting older and I'm just not used to going out as much as I used to. But basically what I'm saying is I don't need to go to a fancy two or three Michelin star restaurant, they tend to be kind of stuffy anyway, you know. And I feel like you know, a bit more of a modern hip restaurant is more my style now.

I agree. During COVID, when I didn't go to restaurants, after people started emerging, I remember being really appreciative of service. But now I'm at a point where I think most of like the fancy meals, it's the same thing like every single time. So it does start to lose its novelty. And then you're kind of just looking for the quality of food, rather than the fanfare of it all. So something I wanted to also ask you is, what do you think would be useful for the exhausted burnt out professional moms, in terms of if they're on the precipice of making a change? What advice would you give them?

Wow, there's so much. Well, I think the first thing is to take care of yourself, right? Because all those things you described is mostly a result of just not prioritizing themselves. So I think there's a lot of work in that, right. And women, we're basically socialized to be caretakers. And even if you don't have kids, that extends to just the people around you, maybe your parents, etc, right?

Maybe in your culture, too. But in my culture, or a lot of other cultures, like you want to have a daughter because a daughter takes care of you, the sons don't. Right, have you heard that before?

Yes, of course, in general, cultures, letting men walk away scot free from so many things that they could actually be contributing to including caring for your parents. Right?

Yeah. So I think there's a lot of that. And I think it's even way more exacerbated if you're a parent, because you're just giving so much to your kids. And that has a toll on you. Because then I see a lot of women, they feel like they don't even know who they are anymore. Because they've just been giving, giving, giving. And then obviously, depending on your work circumstances, and whether you've gone through a divorce, there's obviously a lot of things that can cause stress. And so I would say number one is really take care of yourself.

I actually taught a lot of my clients be willing to go part time and work less. But of course, they're always like, Well, what about money, right? They don't want to make less money. I was like, listen, money circumstances are temporary. And part of me is like, you might need to go part time or even take a sabbatical in order to a) recoup.

And then what if that's necessary to actually make more money? That's something people don't consider, because they're so focused on like, well, if I work part time, that means I make less money. In the short term, yes. But then the thing is, you don't have headspace to think about things or be creative, or to even think about having a side gig when you're burned at both ends, you know?

Absolutely. So I'm really intrigued by that. I love that concept that you're mentioning, what's the strategy behind that? Like, how do you coach your clients who you're saying, hey, maybe go part time, maybe take a sabbatical? What does that look like in reality? And how are you helping women to actually do this? Because that sounds really scary. And I'm sure many women are listening to this thinking, yeah, that's great and everything, but no, thanks. You know, they're all freaked out.

Yeah. So part of it is looking at their money to see what's going on. The thing is, most of my clients aren't going to go broke. Like when I say go broke, like, they're not going to not be able to feed their kids or their family if they take some time off. Most of them will just go part. I mean, it's all different. To be honest, the thing is, even when you're doing a sabbatical, there are so many options to make money. Like you can just do like a per diem or locums. Right, I think you do something like that.

So it's not like you turn the money faucet completely off. But it's like, how can we create more space and time and for some people, it's like literally just working one less day a week at their current job or, again, as physicians, there are a lot of options, expert witness work, etc. So it's not like you have to completely turn off the money income, but then it's also getting their money in order. Because the goal is to be in a position where if your job income stops, there shouldn't be a catastrophe in a month or two, right?

Yes, exactly. It's more, I think, just the idea of slowing down the incoming and what am I doing about the outgoing, that people just kind of freeze and have a fight or flight moment during that conversation.

I think they also have to realize that what they're doing now is completely unsustainable. If you think about the decrease in income being temporary, you could think of that as like the investment in yourself to get better, and to build a life where you're not going to need a vacation from right.

Yeah, we need time and space to actually create and have thoughts flow. Because when you are in the day in and day out, day to day grind, you're just surviving. So there's very little room to actually transform or grow during that time. What else besides the part time work would you add to your advice for busy exhausted mothers?

Well obviously getting coached. And I'm not just saying that as a coach, but also as a client. Like I don't know if you're getting coached actively right now, Prianca, but like people always. Actually I was just doing a call with someone and they were like, surprised that I was still getting coached on stuff.

What I've learned from that is, I think people think, whether it's for themselves or looking at other coaches, that we get to a point where our brains are just beautiful inside and like there's no negative thoughts and like, I can handle anything and that kind of thing, unfortunately, yeah, we're human.

Yeah, we're still human. Like, I'm working with a parenting coach now and like. Oh, that's cool. I would say parenting it's like the hardest job in the world right? 

And the most important too. I feel like most people feel like for me, my job as a mom is the number one job even though I spend a lot of time with my career and other things but it's top of mind.

Yeah. And then also what I realized is like I think every parent absolutely needs a parent coach. And part of being the best parent that you want to be is like working on yourself. And so that's why I also think coaching is, every parent coach does it differently. Mine coaches me and then also helps with some tips and tricks, but a lot of it's just coaching me and I'm like, freaked out, Jack's gonna get kicked out of school, like, you know, our brains just go to worst case scenario, he's gonna get kicked out of school, and then wanting to fix it right away. And so she has to coach me to calm my brain on that topic.

But yeah, I think getting coached is so important because understanding that our thoughts create our feelings, it's just life changing. But there's more than just, as you know, like, the way I'm trained is like really just working on your thoughts and how they downstream to feelings. But as you probably know, there's like other things at play that aren't just related to thoughts.

So like, I just feel like there's so much support that's available for your mental and emotional health that I think a lot of us neglect, because everyone kind of knows, like, oh, yeah, you should work out and go to the gym, because you'll feel better. And it's good for your health, right. But our mental health is just not prioritized at all, as you know. So I think that's really, really important is to prioritize your mental health. And there's so many ways to do that. Whether psychiatrists, therapists, coaching all the above.

I mean, I have a personal therapist, I'm in group therapy, and I have a coach. So I very much believe in taking care of myself first. Because that's always how we get to show up as the best versions of ourselves for them, and also setting an example for them, hopefully, so that they grow up caring for their own mental health as adults.

Oh, that's such a good point. I don't think I really thought about that. Here's another thing, right? And I didn't mean to make this into a parenting thing. But this applies whether you're not parent is if you think about it, our generation, although I think you're a lot younger than me Prianca.

I'm not that much younger than you. I think I'm like a couple years younger than you. Yeah.

You just look so young. But you know, we were raised not being taught anything about how to handle our emotions. And if anything, especially cultural is like, don't show emotion, like, be stoic. And then if you're highly educated, it's just like pushing on through school and getting whatever you have to done. And then if you're a doctor, it's worse as well through residency.

So I think we have to learn that skill ourselves and learning it ourselves. Everything we do, our kids are watching us, it's modeled for them, right? And so if you grew up in a family just yelled and punished, and grounded you all the time. It's so funny, because no one's gonna say like, well, how a parent I'm gonna do the same thing for my kids. But as you know, like you end up parenting like your parents. It's kind of insane kind of a mind f, if you think about it.

Well, it comes really naturally. My experience is, I think about the way I was parented, and then I think about. It's in a book, How to Raise Successful People, which I may have recommended to you by Esther Wojcicki but she talks about really going through everything, how you were raised, and thinking about what you want to propagate forward and what you want to eliminate.

I don't know if I want to propagate any of it.

Okay, so for me, a lot of it. I'm like, okay, I'm not like my parents at all. But then what I find is in an academic setting, or like, when I start seeing my son, if he's doing well in school, then I'm kind of like, Alright, I have to help foster this, but not in the same way that my parents did, in a gentle kind way. But I can feel that it's all stirring up the old stuff where I was trying to do the best I could in school, and then I'm thinking alright, yeah, let him do the best he can do but without the punishment, and without tying in any his self worth to that and having like, a way bigger distance from all that.

Well yeah, we definitely were raised in the punishment is how you get people to comply and I mean, it is effective, but it also totally squashes self esteem. Anyway, that's what I'm learning how to navigate. And it's been fascinating for me, and also just showing me like all the areas that I still have work to do, you know?

Yeah, well, we're all constantly growing and changing and doing the best we can. And I really believe that our generation, we are doing better than our parents did. And hopefully our kids will do even better.

I think so. Yeah, yeah. Although, I bet our kids are gonna say the same thing about us.

Well, I'm wondering if it's gonna be because even social media and all the info that's out there, it's very much we're trying to foster these independent people. And we ask them all these questions, and we're much more into mental health, but I wonder if the complaints gonna be the other way. Like, why couldn't my mom just be normal? And why did she have to ask me like how I felt about this? Like it was too psychological?

Interesting, but everything comes down to feelings, like truly.

Well, yes. So today, I was talking to coaches in my mastermind. And I was saying that really the work that pretty much we all do is helping people to sit in the discomfort because once you learn to actually sit with it, that's the currency for the good life because it's being able to be present with your anxiety sometimes, or whatever negative emotions and getting a little bit distance from them, be it through the model or other methods, but really not being one with our thoughts and our feelings. 24/7 Because that's where the torture lies.

I know and little kids, they can't understand like, why can't I have something that I want? Or why do I have to do things I don't want to do. Like brushing his teeth it's like a battle. Like, well I don't want to brush my teeth? None of them do. They don't. Yeah. And he's like, so why should I like I don't want to so therefore I shouldn't.

If I'm really honest here, one of my least favorite things with my kids is the ADLs like, I dread the morning brush teeth and the evening like brush your teeth before bed. And it really depends on how tired I am at night. But especially my two year old, she won't let me brush her teeth. And then I just let her do like very subpar job. And I'm like, alright, it's over.

I mean, which kid actually does the full two minutes? I mean, I don't think anyone does. I do 30 seconds. I'm like, You know what, 30 seconds is good enough?

Yeah I don't know. They hate brushing their teeth. I don't know. And they can't understand that is an automatic and a non negotiable of life. It's just one of the things that we don't need to get into the reason with them, but they hate it.

It boggles my mind. I'm like, doesn't he like. But like, wake up and you've got that, like morning mouth thing going on? I'm like, how is he not bothered by that? But kids just don't seem to be.

They don't care. I know. I hear you. Anyway. Yeah, those chores are tough. I will say though I have an au pair now. She often does the morning brush teeth. And they actually let her help and whatnot, like more than they will me. So yeah, my life has become infinitely better with that. Extra set of hands with her. So I highly recommend that if you have the space for it. It will take that stuff off your plate.

Yeah, I mean, we just have one. We both work from home. So we haven't needed one. But I wouldn't hesitate to hire one if I had multiple kids and had a schedule that made it hard to handle it myself.

Any other advice for exhausted professional moms?

So even if you can't, like I talked about go part, time take a sabbatical. Like you could take a little trip and go to a spa resort by yourself. I'm glad you asked this again. Because when I tell people that I take solo trips, they're shocked. A lot of women are shocked whether they have kids or not. Right. They're just like what, you can do that? And so I travel a decent amount for work. I go to a lot of conferences, but for my birthday this year, I went to Maribel for two nights by myself.

I remember when I told Matt he was like, what? You're not going to hang out with the family? I'm like no. Maribel is an all inclusive spa resort. I love it. I've been there many times. It's amazing what just even a weekend away will be so like nourishing and for anyone listening Maribel, there's three locations, Austin, Berkshire's, which is Massachusetts and Arizona, just two hours south of Phoenix. They are amazing resorts. It's all about wellness and prioritizing and mindfulness. Have you been to one?

I have. I enjoyed it. I also went by myself. My only thing was I felt like I was hungry there. They're too healthy. And I know it's all about wellness. They do the food health, you know, the healthful eating, you know.

You can always get more food, right?

I know but it's all, it's too healthy for me, like I need a steak or a burger like.

Oh, you should have done cook for me. Do you do that? That's good.

I did do that one of the nights. Yes. And that was good. But yeah, that was my only qualm with that place. Yeah.

So yeah, I think that's a great place or just like taking a trip with your girlfriends. I think, again, so easy to just stop doing that because you get into this routine. So I think even that, like I require a decent amount of time for myself. And now it's like normal, I don't feel like, although lately I have been trying to minimize travel a bit more just because Jack started kindergarten and I want to be available for him because we sent him to a Waldorf school.

I saw your post on social media about a more nature immersed school, and I thought, wow, that's awesome.

He's on a farm. And he is gardening and feeding animals, like they're outside, even when it's wet outside. So I had to buy him all this special gear. There's zero academics in their kindergarten. Because their whole philosophy is that developmentally like it's easier to learn when they're a little older. So they actually read a lot later than mainstream school. And so my friends warned me that they won't be reading until second or third grade, even.

They really focus on social and emotional development. And so it just was in line with all the things that I've been learning myself, right, just like really focusing on emotional regulation. Because if you think about it, those skills are way more important than your academics.

It's so true with my children, too. I always think like, well, what is the endgame in this? Like, whatever it is. It's not straight A's. Right, that's for sure. And also people get really crazy about sports and teams and this and that. And I'm like, alright, well are you gonna become a professional athlete? If not, like we don't have to be so crazy about this. Like, it's okay. They learn to be on a team. To me, it's more of a social, like you're talking about skill building.

I don't understand. Like I remember even before Jack was born, just like seeing that this was a thing. And I was so confused, because that's not how it was when we grew up, like our activity was just roaming around the neighborhood on our bikes and our parents not knowing where we were, you know those were our activities.

And so I actually, because he is on a farm all day, like they're literally being physically active. Like, I don't feel the need to do it. And also, they actually said that it's actually not great for them at this age, I forget, but that was enough for me to be like see, they told me not to do it, I'm not gonna do it.

Yeah, I think that's amazing. One thing I will say is my son's kindergarten teacher was saying that she teaches the kids a song about boundaries. And I said, oh, my, I was freaking out. I said, Oh my god, that's amazing. I said, can you imagine if we had learned that at a young age, boundaries like I didn't know what that was until.

They just learned about the personal bubble, the space bubble. Learning that like yeah, there's like everyone has a bubble and you have to ask for consent. And Jack that's his challenging area because he doesn't understand that and because he's so sweet and loving. If he met you like he would just like hug you but he's very strong. So it's almost like he's tackling you. So he doesn't quite understand that not everyone likes to get hugged. I'm like, listen, I know some people are weird. They don't want hugs. So you always have to ask, he still doesn't ask he just will embrace you.

Aw he has to regulate his kindness. Aw. I love that. So I love this concept of take some time and go on a trip alone. I think people are really afraid to do it.

Start with, it doesn't have to be even a night like I think baby steps, right? Because if you're married with kids, I know we're focused, because I'm sure not everyone listening has kids. Like, I have met women who are married with kids who literally never been away from their kids, even one night and their kids are older. I know your eyes are just wide.

I don't even know how that's possible. That's really intense.

So many people, they don't even go out to dinner without their kids.

It's too much. Start with a dinner. Let's just say that, start with a dinner alone. And actually, you never know if you let's say you sit at the bar and you eat dinner, you can meet people around you and you make new friends or just the possibilities are endless with that. What I was going to say about the alone time, I recently realized because I would take my kids on trips, and I took a few days to just reset by myself. And it was so magical that I only had to care for myself.

That was the whole thing that I didn't have to worry about. All right, the brushing teeth or the breakfast. All their needs, which we care for all the time. It's so automatic that one day even to just only think about yourself and be quiet. I like the friends trip idea. But I also think the time when you're not talking to other people and feeling like you have to be entertaining, or engage or listen or any of those.

That's why I like Mirabel solo. Because you don't have to talk to anyone. And it's fine, because a lot of them are there by themselves. Some people go with their girlfriends, but like no one's expecting you to like engage.

And it's in that solitude and the quietness that you can get your best ideas or just restore or you're not giving to anyone except yourself.

And I think that's so fascinating that so many women, that concept of oh, let me just give to myself, and no one else, is so shocking for them. It's a world that they don't know. So yeah, start with that. Even if you can do, like I have a goal of doing it one 24 hour shift a month alone, like that is my goal.

That's amazing. I don't think I have, well, when I went to Paris for 10 Nights. Yeah, I didn't bring my family. I didn't mean for it to be that long. But you know, my business class tickets were already booked. So I couldn't change them. Probably not entirely true.

That's so funny. Yeah. So I have that as a goal. In addition to I think with friends, it's always good to have like a yearly trip you do with a certain group, let's say for doctors or med school friends, or college friends, or whatever other group you have, and just make it an annual thing. And that way, it's already there. Because if you just let these things go years go by.

I know time goes so fast. And it's also like I only have one I can't imagine what it's like with more than one little one. But I think lately I've been trying to pick resorts to have a kids club of some sort.

So we can just park them there for even a few hours is helpful. Or I bring my mom sometimes. Yeah, although she needs a break too. Well, that's not your job, though. But yeah, I mean, I think that's another thing, it's like, don't feel bad about having support. Because I think also we think do everything ourselves. Right.

So like hiring the au pair, or just hiring a part time babysitter or like, don't clean your house, someone else could do that. Like there's so many things you can outsource and they don't cost as much as people think. Like a lot of women I meet don't like to cook, I'm like you can hire a personal chef or get meal, like there's so many services now that do that. Even if you did it a few times a week, that would be helpful.

Absolutely, or just really taking inventory of the things that bring you joy and don't and then start outsourcing the ones that you don't enjoy. Like if you don't find cooking therapeutic, some people do, but if it's not a therapy session for you, and you find it tiring, you don't want to clean up. For me all the prep, the cooking the cleaning afterwards, like that's a big chore for me. So I'd rather have someone help.

I don't do that Matt does it and then he just leaves stuff everywhere. And I was like, listen, you do the laundry. He loves doing laundry. Like you do the laundry, I sometimes cook, I take care of all things Jack, and then you have to deal with dishes and the garbage. Like it's a great division of labor that we have, you know.

I clean up sometimes but it's just putting stuff in the dishwasher. It's not like it's hard, you know? No, it's not.

No, I was gonna say and also he can manage Jack when you take your solo trips.

Yes, I think that might be harder. So that's something we have to navigate because his school is kind of far right now. And so it's a lot of driving. And so I think this fall, I've kind of minimized although I already took one trip and I have another one coming up but just being more picky with like speaking engagements and things like that, because I want to be away a little less because last year I was gone a lot. I mean, it was fun for me. Don't get me wrong.

Yeah, things wax and wane. I love that. Well, thank you so much for all of your pearls and your journey. So beautiful that you shared with us today. And please tell us anything about your business, how we can find you, follow you, all those good things. And of course, I will link to everything in the show notes as well. But definitely tell us verbally.

Yeah, so everything is wealthy mom MD. So it's my website. That's my instagram handle, same as my podcast, wealthy mom MD. And then as you know, I have a book, you can find that on my website, but it's called Defining Wealth For Women. It's a pink book.

I love that you wrote a book and I just think that that speaks to how we all have the ability to make our dreams come true. It's just them matter of getting your mind to it and then taking the action to make it happen

Exactly just taking steps, like all this stuff happens by doing like a lot of little things

Wonderful, well thanks so much for coming today, it was great having you.